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The Palin Fear Factor

Commentary: Some voters are scared of the prospect of a black president. Can Obama convince them that they really should be petrified of a Palin vice presidency?

September 30, 2008


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In times of economic crisis, voters become risk averse. This doesn't mean that they won't vote for political change, especially if it means a change in the policies that caused the financial mess in the first place. But when the future seems uncertain and frightening, above all voters want a candidate who makes them feel safe. Such a theory would seem to favor the avuncular John McCain over the inspirational Barack Obama—the old, white, conservative man with the military bearing, over the brash young newcomer who, as Obama himself has said, "doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills."

These days, however, it isn't Obama who's looking like the risky choice in November's election. McCain's erratic behavior and high-profile stunts alone are spooking some voters, and making the unflappable Obama seem all the more solid in comparison. But the scariest thing about McCain is the person on the other half of his ticket.

On Monday, Sarah Palin was whisked away to McCain's Sedona, Arizona, estate with his top campaign advisors where, as The Nation's Katha Pollitt described it, "She's prepping for her debate with Joe Biden like a student jock cramming for a test." The McCain campaign has also negotiated a less-challenging debate format, with shorter answer periods and little time for follow-up or free exchange between the candidates. But none of this is likely to obscure the increasingly glaring truth about Palin.

In a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll released last Wednesday, only 40 percent of Americans said they believed Palin was qualified to be vice president, while 49 percent said she was not qualified. In comparison, 64 percent said that Joe Biden was qualified, and just 21 percent said he was not. An earlier Associated Press/Yahoo News poll found that 61 percent did not think Palin had the right experience to be president. Those polls were done before the Dow dropped 700-plus points in a single day—and before the airing of Palin's disastrous interview with Katie Couric last week, where Americans saw just who it was they could be placing on the threshold of the oval office.

After running an excerpt from that interview, in which Palin answered Couric's question about the economic bailout package with a rambling and incoherent response, CNN's Jack Cafferty commented: "If John McCain wins, this woman will be one 72-year-old's heartbeat away from being president of the United States. And if that doesn't scare the hell out of you, it should… I'm 65 and have been covering politics...for a long time. That is one of the most pathetic pieces of tape I have ever seen for someone aspiring to one of the highest offices in this country." (A commenter on Cafferty's blog wrote that he felt "sorry and embarrassed for Sarah" because "McCain has sucked her into an 'opportunity' akin to a sub-prime mortgage situation on a house she cannot afford.")

The Cafferty piece has joined an assortment of eyebrow-raising Palin videos that are making the rounds on YouTube. Others include various scenes from Palin's former church, the Wasilla Assembly of God Church: Palin praying for a natural gas pipeline and a pastor at her church asking God to finance her campaign for governor and protect her from witchcraft.

A notable addition comes from the pre-show green room conversation among several guests on Sunday's This Week with George Stephanopoulos . Asked what he thought of Palin's interview with Couric, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich—a longtime admirer of the Alaska governor—replied, "They shouldn't have scheduled it" while she was still in "training." The conversation continued:

Robert Reich: "When is she ready for prime time?"
George Will: "When is she ready to be president, that's the question."
Gingrich: "If you want to ask me which gamble do I prefer—I prefer the gamble of Palin to the gamble of either Obama or Biden..."
Will: "Life is full of gambles that are unavoidable. This surely was an avoidable gamble."

George Will is no fan either of Palin or of McCain, who he accused accused last week of "behaving like a flustered rookie playing in a league too high" under the pressure of the financial crisis. But he is just one of a growing number of conservative commentators who have joined the mainstream press in questioning Palin's qualifications, including Kathleen Parker, David Brooks, and David Frum, who recently commented that Palin had "pretty thoroughly—and probably irretrievably—proven that she is not up to the job of being president." Frum added, "this is a moment of real high anxiety, a little bit like 9/11, when people look to Washington for comfort and leadership and want to know that people in charge know what they are doing."

Apparently, members of the McCain campaign team might be feeling the same way. Palin is being kept away from the press while she undergoes her pre-debate tutorial. And while Biden made the rounds on the networks last Friday doing Obama's post-debate spin, Palin remained sequestered in Pennsylvania with a small gathering of debate-viewers and a "limited group of reporters." The spin for McCain was instead done by Rudy Giuliani.

The Obama campaign seems to have picked up on the growing anxiety about the Republican ticket. Campaigning in Colorado on Monday, Obama explicitly introduced the theme into his stump speech:

I read the other day that Senator McCain likes to gamble. He likes to roll those dice. And that's ok. I enjoy a little friendly game of poker myself every now and then. But one thing I know is this—we can't afford to gamble on four more years of the same disastrous economic policies we've had for the last eight.

I know that when Senator McCain says he wants to bring the same kind of deregulation to our health care system that he helped bring to our banking system—his words—well, that's a bet we can't afford. We can't afford to roll the dice by privatizing Social Security, and wagering the nest egg of millions of Americans on Wall Street. We can't afford to gamble on more of the same trickle down philosophy that showers tax breaks on big corporations and the wealthiest few.

If Obama succeeds in depicting the McCain-Palin team as risky and threatening on the basis of their policies as well as their persons, it might surmount another kind of fear that has plagued this presidential race: the fear and mistrust that some white voters harbor for African American candidates. This kind of fear has produced racially polarized voting in this country since Reconstruction, and it is a factor in the so-called Bradley Effect, in which white voters express their intention to vote for a black candidate, but get cold feet in the voting booth (as they did in the 1982 California gubernatorial race, defying polls that had predicted a win for African American candidate Tom Bradley).

The fact that McCain is a loose cannon and Palin is an empty shell may not have much effect on hard-core racists or Christian fundamentalists. But it just might tip the scales for some Independents and for white working-class Clinton voters in swing states, who displayed mistrust of Obama through the primary races. If this is Obama's strategy, he would do well to continue in the reserved, statesmanlike mode that has some supporters yearning for his earlier soaring rhetoric. If the economy continues to implode, the Democratic candidate will need to project some of the gravitas that FDR showed in 1932, convincing American voters that the only thing they have to fear is fear itself—and Sarah Palin.

James Ridgeway is Mother Jones' senior Washington correspondent.



 

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I am fearful of McCain, yes, his trojan horse Sarah also.......but McCain is the one that will accomplish WWIII. By the way, get a transcript if you can of "On the Record" with Greta Van Sustran last nite. Newt Gingrich is involved in the Republican debacle...I know it, another tip, Sarah Palin has been involved with Cheney/Rove/Gingrich/Bush since at least January of 2008, has been to the WH 4 times since 2006, and Gingrich and Rove have been slipping her name out since January of this year to Fox News pundits. I know of a personal phonecall from Cheney to Palin in January from Alaska blogs and her involvement with the Corrupt Bastards Club, eg; Frank Murkowski, Stevens, Bill Allen, Randy Rhuedrich and others. Todd has also been deeply involved in absolutely everything, and yes, they both have their affairs and stay together.
Posted by:nativegirlSeptember 30, 2008 2:53:45 PMRespond ^
My former University of Wyoming
Political Science teacher would have
been better than Palin. At least, she
has a Ph.D to show for it.
Posted by:ThomasSeptember 30, 2008 4:39:21 PMRespond ^
Palin is new on the national scene and the MSM wants her to fail after a bad interview. Obama's credentials are not impressive and he is at the top of the ticket and Palin is not. Obama has not accomplishments to speak of and at least Palin had the gumption and inteligence to move from the PTA to VP nominee....no affirmative action required.
Posted by:BrianSeptember 30, 2008 6:34:08 PMRespond ^
Do you seriously entertain the thought that Palin got the nod to be VP because of her intellect or even hard work? She is the poster girl for the worst excesses of tokenism.
Posted by:oldsurfaSeptember 30, 2008 6:50:32 PMRespond ^
We don't want her to fail. We just don't want an air head as VP. She is taking classes to try and become VP. She is way out of her league. I thought the intervew was good, not bad. It showed that she is in no way ready to be VP or step in and be the President. Please list her accomplishments since she has so many. Also, was she in Hawaii going to College or was that a college online ? Just checking.
Posted by:Peggy PerreiraOctober 1, 2008 8:14:30 AMRespond ^
What terrible choices the voters have. Palin stands out in the gallery of hand puppets. Many votes will be cast for reasons that are not grounded in logic or comparisons of experience, etc. Here's the interesting factor in upcoming VP debate: When a guy beats up a girl (however gracefully and gently) with whom are the spectators likely to sympathize? Just a thought.
Posted by:aliceOctober 1, 2008 11:47:53 AMRespond ^
Neither party has a real go-to person, another words we have another bettor of two evils,....but, and I have seen this for along time, Obama has the intelligence and the know how to put a team together of like people...not old cronies and "good job - Brownies " My first thoughts of Palin are still there, poster woman and Hillary-voter magnet.
Posted by:georgepOctober 1, 2008 11:55:05 AMRespond ^
You're missing the point.http://www.counterpunch.org/conn10012008.html
Posted by:steve connOctober 1, 2008 11:56:13 AMRespond ^
yes. We vote for the choices of oligarchy - not the candidates in the two-party two step.
Posted by:aliceOctober 1, 2008 12:01:50 PMRespond ^
There's just no way McCain could survive the stress of the job which would put this revolting woman in charge; until she asked Cheney to be VP... didn't Putin pull a stunt like this?
The more I think about this the surer I am that Cheney is behind this.
Posted by:GOctober 1, 2008 12:06:51 PMRespond ^
First, Palin. I do believe that she is not very smart at all, that she is duplicitous, has early on engaged in questionable things (I won't go into this here),but the real issue of course is that she is not prepared to step into the White House as CEO.She has clearly demonstrated this in remarks she has already made.

Now one can say Obama has not much experience but he has as much time in national politics As did Lincoln! and the manner in which he is running his campaign is a sure sign of great skills.

Now McCain: aside from the frightening display of an incompetent campaign he is showing the public, he has all the symptoms of PTSD--I have Nam vets who also have great outbursts of anger, rage. Now we have not been allowed to see in detail McCain's medical record. It has been carefully kept from the public. The few doctors allowed a very brief glimpse are very upset by what they believe might well be in those records, records public deserves to know. For details of this concern, listen to the doctors who glimpsed the medical records!

http://therealmccain.com/doctors/?utm_source=rgemail
Posted by:fred lapidesOctober 1, 2008 12:08:51 PMRespond ^
Bradley's problem was a progressive gun-control initiative on the same ballot that brought a lot of new or occasional conservative pro-gun voters to the polls to vote it down. While they were at it, they voted against the black guy.
Posted by:Michael HeisterOctober 1, 2008 12:08:51 PMRespond ^
Brian - Which lunatic-fringe blowhard did you pick up that talking point from??? Obama's been vetted through the primary process - for something like 18 months - like no candidate in history. Palin should recognize the look on her own face - it's the same look she sees on a moose (a close cousin of the deer) when she's driving at night.
Posted by:Michael HeisterOctober 1, 2008 12:14:05 PMRespond ^
Native Girl, I wish that you would cite some sources or elaborate a bit more on these remarks--give us something to fact-check. Thanks!
Posted by:JHHOctober 1, 2008 12:20:04 PMRespond ^
I have never met your college poli sci professor, but I suspect you insult her by comparing her to Palin, who does not seem to have shown any interest in government except as it affects her ego and ability to employ her high school friends.
Posted by:Jonathan SwiftOctober 1, 2008 12:25:42 PMRespond ^
I'm petrified of a McCain/Palin presidency. I think they are both scarier than each other!
Posted by:radline9October 1, 2008 12:27:48 PMRespond ^
Obama has amazing credentials - constitutional scholar and teacher (remember the constitution?)top in his class at Harvard, 1st AA to head up Law Review. Has authored and co-sponsored numerous pieces of impressive & complex legislation. Palin has gumption? So did W. How'd that work out for ya? It isn't that the woman is inexperienced-I could deal with that. Besides her hard core right wing, religious fanatic views, she has the depth of a saltine cracker. This week the McCain campaign said she was in "debate camp" good lord! are we back in grade school???
Posted by:Reality CheckOctober 1, 2008 1:32:47 PMRespond ^
First Palin reveals she has no knowledge of the Bush doctrine, then she can't name ANY supreme court case other than Roe v Wade? What kind of journalism student was she? She wouldn't tell Couric any of the newspapers she reads. Doesn't appear that she gets beyond the local Wasilla paper.
Posted by:FirstAmendmentFanOctober 1, 2008 1:52:01 PMRespond ^
I believe that the strong comments of a "Dyed In The Wool" conservative like George Will says it all about the Screetching White-Trash,Religious Whacko, Compulsive Liar, Worldly Ignorant, Presidentially Incompetent, Good Old Girl, Small Town Politician....................need I say more????????
Usually it's 3 strikes your out...........in this case it's 10 strikes before she gets to bat!
What a JOKE!
What an embarrassment before the rest of the world!
Yes.........the rest of the world is watching and I'm sure many of them are laughing also!
God help us all..................
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 1, 2008 1:58:06 PMRespond ^
To be painfully honest, my dog would make a better vp that Sarah Failin.
Posted by:SooziOctober 1, 2008 2:01:18 PMRespond ^
Hey People,

Every reputable study indicates that 5% of DEM voters are not voteing for obama since he is black..!!!

What do you think the percentage is for Rebublicans...?

Red Necks Rule..:-)

Bill
Posted by:Bill NighOctober 1, 2008 2:03:12 PMRespond ^
OH yea, i forgot, Do you have any idea what axe the black people have to grind...?

What do you think is going to happen when a bro is in the White House...?

Bill
Posted by:Bill NighOctober 1, 2008 2:04:06 PMRespond ^
America, let us solemly affirm that we will stop supporting STUPID with a vote for Obama and Biden this November. We're stuck in foreign quagmires, with an economy that's about to sink the planet into an abyss of insurmouontable debt because an unchecked rabid pack of numbskulls elected a twit who was a lot like them, dumb as a brick and growing dumber every Sunday. We're where we are today because the misguided 'they' wanted a President with whom they all felt comfortable having a Bud! We've spent the last eight years fighting the very elitism and intellectual superiority that once made us a great and compassionate beacon of justice and freedom to be imitated by the whole world, just to become a gullible herd of superstitious, fascist SHEEP led off to slaughter by the very conniving corporatacratic feinds with whom we so naively wanted to have a beer, because it saved us from critically THINKING! Our beloved democratic republic has become some unrecognizable, deviant, repressive, regressive third world dictatorship, viciously run amuck by the BFEE Junta and their avaricious, hegemonic cronies. Electing Gramps and the Alaskan Airhead will only continue our descent into that perdition. So, join Chris Rock in voting for the black guy who, like us, only has one house he lives in fear of losing during these economically uncertain times. Vote for Obama - Biden in November!

That Gramps would select this pig-ignorant dunce to be his VEEP running mate is the utter height of insulting cynicism. This irritating, impudent, feebleminded churl has an IQ equal to that of a megaton sack of hammers. And, I, at this time, wish to apologize to sacks of hammers everywhere for the derrisive insult. To say that Sarah Louise Heath Palin is qualified for absolutely positively NOTHING is quite possibly the understatement of this millenium. That Gramps selected this challenged dip duly disqualifies him to hold any office higher than that of WalMart Greeter. These two miserable incompetents need desperately to be institutionalized somewhere where they can recieve treatment and care for their mental and emotional impairments. To allow them to continue this mockery of our electoral process with this farsical campaign for our highest office only further diminishes the Office of the Precidency of the United States of America in the eyes of the whole world in every embarrassing way imaginable. The McCain-Palin campaign is that felonious form of defamation so hurtful to America's reputation that it ought to be federally prosecutable as a form of high treason.
Posted by:rageOctober 1, 2008 2:21:13 PMRespond ^
She is the conservative chaff the political winds will blow away.
Posted by:dadpasadenaOctober 1, 2008 2:29:46 PMRespond ^
Another "Intellectual Gem" from BILL NIGH "The Rascist Guy".
What ANOTHER embarrassment before the world!
All you have to do is go to an Electoral Vote monitoring site to see that Obama has a nice 134 point lead over Blinky The Clown and his Repukelican Whore!
Red-Necks will NOT choose my president this time...........crawl back under your rocks.
I'm sure that most Red Necks don't realize that the people do NOT elect the President. There is a little thing called the Electoral College that does that! DUH.............
Just go to www.fivethirtyeight.com for instant enlightenment.
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 1, 2008 2:31:33 PMRespond ^
The very same people who "fear" voting for a black man to be president will have no fear of Palin eventually becoming president because she's of their tribe. Although Sarah doesn't own a trailer she is, nevertheless, a yahoo. I have no doubt about her intellect; she hasn't any.
Posted by:Dick HudsonOctober 1, 2008 3:24:30 PMRespond ^
Surely, or at least one can hope, the people who take the time and make the effort to vote will reject the Palin choice. Unready and unprepared describe Palin, but more than that, she clowns or plays cute under stress. She is such a disaster and McCain needs to be stuck with his bad choices. Palin has been thoroughly tutored for the debate; don't be surprised if she can hold her own in this one situation. Other situations in which advance tutoring isn't possible such as we have already seen are the true measure of her incompetence.
Posted by:dishesdoneOctober 1, 2008 3:26:36 PMRespond ^
Everytime I see Palin and Mccain together I think of a quote from Sinclair Lewis. "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Posted by:r.l.sauerOctober 1, 2008 3:44:06 PMRespond ^
What really amazes me about the so-called "Red Neck" cult of voters is the indisputable fact that the people who they are constantly "suckered" into voting for are simply USING the red-necks!
It is NO secret that the majority of Americans are benefitted by the ideals and philosophys of the Democtratic Party. Their may not be a HUGE difference between the major partys, but none the less there IS a difference for the average citizen!
The difference is NOT a cultural, but a CLASS difference. The Repukelican party is a "Rich Man's Club". Anybody making LESS than a Quarter Million dollars is a complete "IDIOT" to vote for a member of this "CLUB"! What party do you think the Wall Street theives belong to? What party do you think that your Banker belongs to? What party do you think your Boss belongs to? Wake up! The only way the Repukelicans can win is to "HOODWINK" the idiots that think things like Guns, Gays, and Abortion will have any REAL effect on their lives!
The ONLY way for a reasonable Average Joe to vote is "YOUR WALLET"! Anybody who votes otherwise is an IDIOT who is voting against their own interest.
The ironic thing is that the candidate who will do the MOST for the "Red Neck" class of people is the "Black Man"! Only they are SO poisoned by their irrational hate that they can't even realize it. And if they can............they won't admit it. What a sad statement for a supposedly "Christian" nation.
BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH..........VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 1, 2008 3:56:01 PMRespond ^
if john maccain wins, sarah palin will be a cancer cell away from the presidency
Posted by:morganism143October 1, 2008 5:19:31 PMRespond ^
Gumption is not equal to ability. Her past interviews prove that her abilites lie at a PTA level. And are not near what is needed from a vice president. And heaven forbid because of McCain's questionable health she would become president. Besides who is one of the Repubican's advisors? Good ole Phil Gramm the architect of two bills which deregulated Wall Street. Which along with greed led us to where we stand today. If McCain chooses Palin as his VP. And Gramm as a chief advisor. Just how bad will it become under the McCain administration. It would be simple to administer no middle class just the rich and the poor. Waiting for something besides the Republican's rhetoric to trickle down.
Posted by:gmanOctober 1, 2008 5:24:53 PMRespond ^
Any sane person is already frightened at the prospect of Palin in a high government position. Even many Republicans & conservatives realize that she is the most unqualified nominee in decades. What scares me is how so many other right-wing partisans continue to stubbornly defend her as being qualified, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Are they really that stupid? Or are they just so blinded by their own partisanship? Either way, it's a sad reflection on the state of conservatism in the US today- intellectually bankrupt, clinging to stale symbolism, flailing blindly against progress.
Posted by:Doctor BOctober 1, 2008 5:56:48 PMRespond ^
After his Putinis KGB on International TV and his Freeze Spending except for Defense Spending, I Would Prefer Palin For President-It's McCain that wants to keep the War going and the Surge in Defense Spending and Casualties!
Posted by:Mr. IndependentOctober 1, 2008 6:42:27 PMRespond ^
I'm afraid the McSame / Paine ticket's gonna win.

Why?

The morons overwhelmingly outnumber people with an I.Q. above that of your average chihuahua. Moron appeal is the gold key.

Simple as that.

Fear factor and idiot appeal go hand in hand and they both spell "Repugnican Victory".

The morons will choose McSame over Obama because they fear a potentially brilliant statesman who happens to be Black. The morons will also just love Pain, another moron who is, as they are, cast in the same mold as dubya. He had loads of that "ignirant" charm, too.

The morons will "Vote With Their Hearts" because they simply don't have enough grey matter to vote intelligently and prevent a grave threat or even the downfall of Western Civilization.

If the repugnican ticket wins, it will also signal the failure, the downfall not only of America, but of democracy as a whole.

There's just too many idiots for democracy to work properly if the morons keep on having their say... all you have to do is pull the idiot's heartstrings and you're the leader of the whole free world. That SO stupid!

That's the way Hitler did it, by the way. In a democracy, by the way. It was a Bush-esque disaster, by the way. The only difference is that old Adolf had talent.

Bush had backers.


Spitfire
Posted by:SpitfireOctober 1, 2008 8:50:52 PMRespond ^
I was never as scared about the prospect of Palin as veep until I saw the trailer for the movie, 'The Palin Presidency'. Terrifying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZLjIpHzj8
Posted by:briancOctober 1, 2008 9:05:51 PMRespond ^
That montage follows a scenario so obviously stupid that it could win over some of the particularly intellectually challenged repugnicans.

What can I say?

[deleted] 'em...
Posted by:SpitfireOctober 1, 2008 10:07:02 PMRespond ^
Not after reading the post on this site about Obama and Alinsky and the connections with radicals and marxists and all kinds of really scary people. Obama is not suited, wrong background, wrong political belief system, wrong angry wife, wrong preacher man, wrong friends...any questions??
Posted by:nancy hughesOctober 1, 2008 10:07:52 PMRespond ^
And? Is something wrong here? at least mccain knew what and who he was getting. Affairs? well, bless her..it must have been very difficult with all those kids!!
Posted by:nancy hughesOctober 1, 2008 10:09:24 PMRespond ^
Hold the phone ladies! Obama had two years to learn, and many teachers, He wasn't allowed to speak of prompter for about 18 months. this woman is 44 she has had 7 weeks in the eye of the world. Lets give her some time! 7 weeks!! that's like learning to play the piano in 7 weeks.
Posted by:nancyOctober 1, 2008 10:11:07 PMRespond ^
Bill N, you seem to have twisted view of our country, in other words you are an IDI-T.
Posted by:Bob BOctober 1, 2008 10:11:17 PMRespond ^
I find this idea so important that I will venture to post it again :

There's just too many idiots for democracy to work properly if the morons keep on having their say... all you have to do is pull the idiot's heartstrings and you're the leader of the whole free world. That SO stupid!

That's the way Hitler did it, by the way. In a democracy, by the way. It was a Bush-esque disaster, by the way. The only difference is that old Adolf had talent.

Bush had backers.


Spitfire
Posted by:SpitfireOctober 1, 2008 10:12:22 PMRespond ^
Please. She isn't digusting, Michelle is disgusting with that humungous mouth spouting all kinds of anti-american garbage. Now that's disgusting.
Posted by:nancyOctober 1, 2008 10:12:33 PMRespond ^
I wish Newt Gingrich would get lost. A man that is not wanted keeps showing up with his ugly face and behaviour.

Re Palin, I don't consider a two-month crash course in civics, foreign affairs and economics as a qualification for VP.
Posted by:Sandra SOctober 1, 2008 10:14:42 PMRespond ^
They all go to debate camp. God knows Obama stuttered, "uhhh" and arms waving in the arm! It took him `18 months to stop that and 23 debates. Give Palin a chance it's been 7 weeks or less!! She is refreshing, Hillary was like leather,and the rest of those old broads aren't any better. She will learn, she came a long way in a short time, give her a break
Posted by:nancyOctober 1, 2008 10:15:00 PMRespond ^
Your comments, JNH88KROctober 1, 2008, are sadly too true. The dumbed-down populace of this mass in the United States who votes against their own sociological, economic, (and yes) security interests is on the level of filial cannibalism--the Wolf spider eating it's young, and the masses mesmerized into drinking Jim Jones' KoolAid. It's also a testament to how well the Republican corporatist's strategy of owning all mainstream media and turning it into a propaganda machine, and years of under-funding public education has accomplished their goal of turning the US citizenry into the most ignorant population in the industrialized world--and far behind those of India and China.

Modern-day Rome is falling--the beacon on the hill is collapsing. But the rich global oligarchs will amass and consolidate all the more wealth and power. And when the ignorant mass’s jobs are no more, and depleted oil and no alternative energy development has driven food, transportation, and heat for shelter out of their economic reach, the ignorant red-necks and Christian fanatics will blame those 'liberals' and 'illegal immigrants.' They’ll fight for the right to keep their guns, and outlaw gays and abortions while they eat their young and burn their bones for heat to survive the winter.



Posted by:jwise42October 1, 2008 10:16:21 PMRespond ^
I heard tonight when Clinton was debating long ago, he knew nothing of foreign policy and had to be trained, even the best go through a learning and training session. I guess like Diana did when she started living in the "castle". they were on her constantly, training, etc.
Posted by:nancyOctober 1, 2008 10:17:07 PMRespond ^
Obama will win. The race card is already factored in. He would have a 15-20 point lead without the race card. Me, a white woman, will be proud to have Barack Obama as my President representing my country to the world. I am sure America and the world will breathe a sigh of relief after eight years of insanity.
Posted by:Sandra SOctober 1, 2008 10:19:20 PMRespond ^
Oh please! don't compare Obama to Lincoln. Obama is a socialist. He has no experience, none, nada. He has a horrible background, his friends, his wife, his books are unbelievable. He is not who you think he is..he has a radical anti-American past worth looking into right here on this site. He isn't desireable as a President.
Posted by:nancyOctober 1, 2008 10:19:52 PMRespond ^
Well, people find her refreshing and something new rather than the hard crusted old broads.
Posted by:NancyOctober 1, 2008 10:21:17 PMRespond ^
Bush had 4 doctrines. That was a stupid question.(she should have told Couric that the question was stupid) I am sure only one or two people on earth knew the answer. She could have said Affirmative Action, but that would have opened a can of worms. I think she was nervous. I remember Couric's first 2 months on her new job, it was miserable to watch, she was so self conscienous, she couldn't decide if she should sit on the desk at the end of the program or stand or how her clothing should be, her uncomfortable behavior made me squirm. I guess that is how Sarah felt with that crusty old Couric. RUMOR HAD IT SHE AS ALMOST FIRED.
Posted by:NancyOctober 1, 2008 10:27:21 PMRespond ^
Ok. I'll go down to your level.

Did you know that Mr. McCain has to go potty every ten minutes? Did you know that our own Sarah does not have an opinion?

She has drive!

She'll drive those Putin Russians out of her Alaskan back yard any day. She can see the Putin Russians from her house, you know.

They don't have antlers. That's how she can tell the difference between a moose and a Putin Russian.

I'm SO tired.

[deleted] you.


Spitfire
Posted by:SpitfireOctober 1, 2008 10:29:35 PMRespond ^
If Obama does become president, and goes back to Europe to try to curry favor with those idiot Europeans by telling them what a bad country we are it isn't going to go well here. He made people here angry with that Germany speech of his, he forgot the Germans counld'nt vote. If he releases all the arab/muslims from Gitmo and makes our country pay for a slew of attorneys, that won't go over very well. If he gives the U.N. 845Billion to raise (his plan) countries out of poverty, that will not go over well at all. He could be impeached he has many radical views that most Americans have not heard, read, or digested. Right here on this site is a full explaination of Obama's past associations with radical anti-american groups and people. I just read it tonight.
Posted by:nancyOctober 1, 2008 10:33:44 PMRespond ^
Gloves off?

Nancy, I just know you do it for the sheer glory of it all.

You're like a dedicated civil servant, doing it for whatever.

But it's obvious you're feeding the party line here. I can't believe you're such a whore.

Please tell the assembled, confused throng what your handler told you to say7
Posted by:SpitfireOctober 1, 2008 10:38:59 PMRespond ^
Well, well, well............."Fancy NANCY"
You are a CLASSIC example of the kind of irrational thought process that makes people continue to vote for clueless, incompetent, politicians.
First of all Little Missy..............Katie Couric did NOT ask Blinky The Clown's Repukelican Whore the Bush Doctorine question! It was Charles Gibson who asked that. So you lose ALL credibility from the start. Comparing "Dan Quayle With Tit's" lack of public speaking experience to Katie Couric is a total non-sequitur. Last I heard............Couric was NOT running for Vice President.
Just sit back and let the adults do the voting............you'll be better-off as a result.
BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH..............VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 1, 2008 11:00:48 PMRespond ^
OOOps.............sorry for the typo!
I meant to write "Bush Doctrine"
Sorry "NANCY". Democrats aren't perfect..........just intellectually honest!
You should try it sometime........................duh.
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 1, 2008 11:08:33 PMRespond ^
Actually "NANCY"................on a serious note. Your mindless, unfactual, rantings have all the markings of a person whose leaky boat has sunk beneath her and she is desperately flailing in the water trying to save herself.
But LOOK..........."NANCY"..........there on the shore stands a man with a Life Ring in his hands. He is ready to save you.
At this point "NANCY", my dear,..............would it matter if the man on the shore is "BLACK" or "White"???????

Just how "intellectually honest" are you????

That's what I thought.................that's what we ALL think...........duh.
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 1, 2008 11:30:31 PMRespond ^
Thanks "jwise42"!

I totally concur with your posting also.
Let's pray for the enlightenment of the masses.
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 2, 2008 1:24:06 AMRespond ^
How can the masses be enlightened when corporations own the "news" media? They only say what the corporate CEO's, neo-libs and conservative corporate-owned politicians spew forth without asking real questions or checking facts. No wonder the average US voter is so ignorant and believes all this conservative, neo-lib free market, globalization, anti-regulatory, predatory capitalistic BS. It's what their corporate "news" media has told them for 28 years. 1984 came in 1980.
1% of the US populace owns 60% of the wealth, the US has an infant mortality rate similar to the 3rd world, 43 million working people in the US have no access to healthcare, 100's of people are losing their homes every day, bridges are collapsing, Bush & Co. have been lying and causing the deaths of 100,000s of thousands of people (the US media only mentions the US casualties, as usual) and these deaths create more hatred for the US and more "terrorists", the debt is in the trillions with nothing going to help the country, the dollar is a joke, and what civil rights there were are disappearing fast under this conservative corporatocracy that rules the country. The USAmerican people have been so brainwashed that any program to help the people using their own tax dollars, instead of feeding the war profiteers and military-industrial complex, is "socialism" and that socialism is akin to satanism.(McSame says he wants to cut more government spending and you can bet it won't be spending on the military he cuts!)
Well, Nancy and all your poor ignorant friends (which in the US is a large group!) I would choose the "terrible" socialist countries like Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands etc. any day for quality of life and political freedoms over the US, one of the most conservative and backward countries in the so-called developed world. These scarey "socialist" countries always lead the world in everything progressive, advanced and good and Denmark is rated as having the happiest people in the world - how can that be? They live in a "socialist" country?(The great USofA ranks quite a ways down that list - why if it so great?) Your ignorance is no excuse for your stupidity.
I live in Europe to escape the violent, hedonistic, materialistic, militaristic, conservative, neo-colonial, freedom bashing greed of the US and I wouldn't move back to that looney bin for anything! Viva Socialism!!! Because of the socialist influence Europe has built their strong and more open democracies (not just 2 corporate parties to chose from here) where (like in the US) the conservative (usually religious-oriented) parties have fought it, there is more representative government with more parties representing more views represented in parliaments, the economic crisis caused by free market US policies haven't caused as much harm here because the banks have not been allowed to follow such a predatory capitalistic course (though the conservative party alliance is the largest voting block in the EU parliament now and has been pushing the same free market capitalism over here - idiots) and there is a "social contract" that is part of European thinking (because of the socialists) that makes governments consider actions in light of how they will impact on public well-being, like health care (which everyone in Europe has access to). In Europe quality of life is the goal where in the USofA it is quantity. And what kind of person chooses the latter?)
The US empire of neo-colonialism, state sponsered terrorism, military bullying, economic hitmen, overthrowing governments, economic blackmail, hypocrisy, and pillaging other peoples' resources is in decline. For the sake of the world, its people, real democracy, peace and progress I pray that is true and that the EU becomes the leader of the world. A worldwide poll of 10s of thousands of people asked "what is the greatest threat to the peace of the world" and the vast majority of people said the USofA! The EU was seen as a benevolent force in the world. Having lived in both places, I agree wholeheartedly! McCain/Palin scare more than you few progressives in the US. Obama gets over 80% of the vote in polls in Europe and he isn't going to change the agressive US foreign policy by much, I'm afraid, but compared to McSame and his mascot, he is the better choice. Too bad the US doesn't have real open and fair democratic elections so Ralph Nader et al would have equal coverage and chance. There is REAL change! But that'll never happen until people in the US demand real democracy with real choice and "news" media that are serious about their job as the 4th Estate to protect the people from lying, corrupt politicians and robber barons. No democracy can work well without a free and fair news media and right now the US media is rated 52nd in the world (tied with Ecuador) by Reporters Without Borders, who express alarm at the rapid rate of decline in press freedom in the US, much of which is self imposed by wealthy, corporate-owned "news" providers - who are nothing more than cheerleaders for the corporatocracy that rules. They talk about how bad socialism is because it threatens the robber barons. They don't report on what the US is really doing around the world and the misery it causes because that would work against the real rulers of the US, and their paymasters. Do some searching around,there are many news sources out there to find out what is really happening in the world, and you might even find out what is really happening in your own country that you are not told about.
Posted by:FreeThinkerOctober 2, 2008 4:09:22 AMRespond ^
If you knew anything about Obama, you'd know Affirmative Action has never been used by him to get anywhere. Oh, and check his voting record before you spout such nonsense
Posted by:dkOctober 2, 2008 5:09:17 AMRespond ^
Did you hear Palin say it was about time that "Joe Six Pack" was represented in the White House? Holy Cow. Joe Six Pack might be a barrel of fun at a Super Bowl party, but belching at a state dinner?
Posted by:AugieOctober 2, 2008 7:35:09 AMRespond ^
Freethinker--you are right on.You lost Nancy and Bill Nigh as soon as you started using truth and demonstrable facts. Wish you would come back to America. We need you.
Posted by:STONY RUNOctober 2, 2008 8:03:36 AMRespond ^
I think you are all full of bull roar!
Posted by:RA FlorczykOctober 2, 2008 8:26:11 AMRespond ^
dumbass
Posted by:chuck wOctober 2, 2008 8:55:15 AMRespond ^
Classic folk
Posted by:rawdawgbuffaloOctober 2, 2008 10:35:40 AMRespond ^
The range of many of these opinions expressed reflects how we tend to judge our candidates - short sound bites crafted by professionals for maximum impact. Debates, response to crises, these responses tend to show the character of the candidate. I admire John McCains service to county, but another guy with the "right stuff", Randy Cunningham has gone so wrong. I find the comments about red-necks, which seem to be directed toward southerners to be particularily distasteful - We all know us southerners are ignorant - people like Thomas Jefferson, M.L. King and Mark Twain (who considered himself to be a southern writer although born in Missouri) to name a few.... I believe in the right to bear arms and other issues that make me more of a "Blue Dog Democrat". Having said that, my choice of candidate is not based upon being black, being female, being a war hero, but what does the candidate bring to the table in these troubling times. Wall Street and much of the private sector has screamed loudly AND long about governmental interference - but now govt. is there best buddy - any leader that will show a rejection of the failed policies that got us here has my vote - and I'm an independent, hoping for (but not expecting) a strong third party in the not too distant future. First and formost I'm proud to be an American and believe that once we, as a people stop thinging about what's in it for me and start thinking about what is good for us (Kennedy - Ask not..) the US can address many of our problems and one again regain the moral high ground we seem to have lost.
Posted by:BrickOctober 2, 2008 2:00:42 PMRespond ^
The REAL fear is not in Sarah Palin's contents, but the contents of those who, were she to be elected, and maybe even promoted due to circumstances, would easily take advantage of her ignorance, naive, and overall lack of familiarity with the magnitude of risks, and costs of those higher offices.

Obviously, if nobody knew who she was, she knows no one either who she can say she trusts, or trust her, so HOW would she relate? Obviously she'd be pray to abuse and mal-use, and THAT's bad for the country. So far it does seem that her vanity can be taken advantage of. It's like she accepted a raid into a car of a stranger with the promise of fame, power, and so forth, being a task for which she is obviously not prepared.
Posted by:El MugrosoOctober 2, 2008 2:56:00 PMRespond ^
Watch Homer Simpson vote for (Obama) on election date.
Funny real, original, unpublished cartoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhYqtpsE21k
Posted by:El MugrosoOctober 2, 2008 4:50:30 PMRespond ^
Palin won the debate last night hands down she is smart and quick plus she has a secret weapon, that of being real.
Posted by:carolynOctober 3, 2008 11:56:51 AMRespond ^
Palin is smart and has proven herself a capable, effective leader. The media has destroyed her and Mother JOnes readers of all people should be worried abou the profound implications of a one world media.
Posted by:carolynOctober 3, 2008 12:00:03 PMRespond ^
It's time for a wife and mom to grace the white house. That is real diversity and it's about damn time. Palin is the real deal. She is more mainstream than anybody I've ever seen in government since Jimmy Carter.
Posted by:carolynOctober 3, 2008 12:05:00 PMRespond ^
You don't have to be a polisci teacher to be a brilliant or even effective leader. Sarah Palin has "it". She's a strong strong leader. It's such a foreign entity these days it's hard to recognize. Obama has never so much as led a boy scout troop. Nothing. This woman has been leading her entire life.
Posted by:carolynOctober 3, 2008 12:08:56 PMRespond ^
You don't have to be a polisci teacher to be a brilliant or even effective leader. Sarah Palin has "it". She's a strong strong leader. It's such a foreign entity these days it's hard to recognize. Obama has never so much as led a boy scout troop. Nothing. This woman has been leading her entire life.
Posted by:carolynOctober 3, 2008 12:10:12 PMRespond ^
To the Republicans on this blog:

Education is the way out. When you are "locked" in your little, pathetic, scary, ignorant, racist, world you cannot see the truth. The reality is is that there is a real world outside of your sheltered, homogeneous bubble. The real world is diverse. The real world is full of colorful, exuberant, different people. That is the first step in seeing the real world as it actually is. The real world is not full of white, gun-toting, religious-preaching, racists. Educate yourself. And not just formally. Step outside of your tiny, little, world. Visit metropolitan cities, go to the theatre, see a play, spend the afternoon at a museum, eat lunch at a Chinese restaurant and dinner at an Italian restaurant, and talk with someone who looks, speaks, and lives differently than you. Only then will you understand the diversity of this world, the complexities of the people, and the differences of lifestyles. And only then will you see how wonderful and creative and exciting and fulfilling and diverse this world is. Open yourselves up!!! When you do that, you're not so afraid of the differences in people. And you get to know others and see them as people too. And when you do that, you begin to want fairness and equality for ALL people. You will begin to see your bigoted, biased, racist, and ignorant ways. And you will be inclined to want EVERYONE to succeed, to be given a fair chance, and to have the same opportunities. You will be less fearful of the differences among us and more welcoming of them. Step outside of your sheltered, homogeneous bubble.
Posted by:Common Sense in PoliticsOctober 4, 2008 2:54:39 AMRespond ^
but isnt Obama the democrats token? also, the democrats threw their token woman vp under the bus....lol whats the point?
Posted by:ArioOctober 4, 2008 3:16:51 AMRespond ^
Yes, Nancy...7 weeks. That's why she's not qualified to be the Vice President of the United States of America, let alone of the PTA. You wrote, "that's like learning to play the piano in 7 weeks." I would say that being the Vice President of the United States of America is a little more important than playing the piano. But that's just me. In the middle of a war, I'm less inclined to care if my Vice President can play chopsticks on a piano and more inclined to care that my Vice President knows what the hell they're doing!!! But again, that's just me!!!
Posted by:Common Sense in PoliticsOctober 4, 2008 3:17:43 AMRespond ^
Carolyn:

"Palin won the debate last night hands down."

We must have been watching different debates.

Biden was knowledgeable on foreign policy, economics, domestic issues, and even McCain's record. I did enjoy the debate. I enjoyed watching Palin avoid the questions, repeat herself about taxes and energy, and I even enjoyed watching her read from her notes. She must have kept them in alphabetical order; abortion, Al-Qaeda, bailout, Barack, Biden, etc. That way it was easier and quicker to get to them. Oh yeah, she won the debate. If you're a moron and don't know anything about the world you'll believe she won the debate!!!
Posted by:Common Sense in PoliticsOctober 4, 2008 3:34:29 AMRespond ^
On the contrary, everything about her presence on the ticket smacks of affirmative action. In fact, white women have been the most frequent beneficiares of AA, because under federal law, they are a minority. The thing is there are white women in this country who ARE qualified to be president or vice president, but Palin isn't one of them. Her comments make no sense, and her "aw shucks" presentation is laughable. By the way, Obama was president of Harvard's Law Review and he both practiced and taught law. Palin, like Cheney, thinks law is whatever she decides to do at the moment. She has a history of corruption herself, in the form of Troopergate and her improper billings while she "worked" from home. Might be a good idea to learn about her before committing to her.
Posted by:JoAnne MOctober 4, 2008 11:05:30 AMRespond ^
Hey No Common Sense. Your the Jerk that referred me to the site to stop the bailout and it was nothing more than a propaganda site for strokes.

You didn't read my posts and responded to things I didn't say.

Why don't you just hang your signs in your car and quit being part of the Problem.

Both sides are no good for this country. If the past 50 years of warfare have not shown us, than nothing will. Both sides are populated by the rich. What's the difference between the 2 sides?

Everyone responding to Nancy is acting like a close-minded, redneck, ego-centric fascist.

I am not a republican. I know enough to see when one person is just questioning something and a mob is attacking that person, just for asking unpopular questions.
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 4, 2008 8:55:11 PMRespond ^
Dave:

AGAIN, the site was to express your discontent for the bailout. Whether or not your Senators and Representative listened and voted how you wanted them to is another story. Mine were mixed, one voted for it, one voted against it, and my Representative voted against it. And AGAIN, if you’re so unhappy with the way things play out in the political arena, I will tell you AGAIN to consistently write your local, state, and federal government, join groups that agree with your ideology, and get around like-minded people. AGAIN, there is strength in numbers. So stop [deleted]ing for the sake of [deleted]ing and actually start becoming an ACTIVE participant in changing things.

What signs should I hang in my car?

And what was Nancy questioning that we were attacking her about? There were no questions; she was blogging about how great Palin is and how bad Obama is. What was she questioning? Clearly I missed that blog.

And if you think both sides are no good for the country, you should join a group that you think is better than the Dems or Repubs and help them move forward. Help them get their word, ideology, and philosophy out to the public. Stop wasting your time with other things and start working towards the change you want to see… STRENGTH IN NUMBERS. Stop [deleted]ing about how crappy both the Dems and Repubs are and start working at making things in the political arena different.

Your rhetoric and B.S. are exhausting for all of us!!!

Get off your lazy ass and start making things happen that you want to happen. STOP SIMPLY COMPLAINING ABOUT IT!!!

To anyone who even thinks about responding to Dave, don’t bother. He complains and complains and complains, tells people they suck, offers no info of substance, and questions everyone’s motive for blogging on Mother Jones. Save yourselves. If you are interested in seeing his maniacal blogs, check out the Mother Jones story called, The $700 Billion Bailout Plan's Fine Print.

Dave, this will be my last response to you on this story. From now on I will let people know where they can read your ridiculous, out of control B.S.


Posted by:Common Sense in PoliticsOctober 5, 2008 2:18:45 AMRespond ^
I asked for a way to change things and you steered me to Moveon.org. It is a site run by 2 wealthy computer programmers from San Francisco. The first thing they do is ask for money. The whole site was a fraud and just pushed the Democrats. Later I received E-mails from Al Franken that asked for money because he was running for government in Minnesota. It was SPAM mail. I actually had to E-mail them back to tell them to stop.

You referred people to a Web-Site to push your party's Ideology, not to stop the bailout.

It seems like when anyone disagrees with you, you become quite hardlined and then cut-off diplomacy. That sounds like a certain President we have. NO COMMMON SENSE
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 5, 2008 5:38:46 AMRespond ^
When is someone going to get "Fearful" about what is happening to the American Economy? McCain has Stated,"I will FREEZE all spending except for Defense Spending-THAT'S all I need to KNOW!
Posted by:Mr IndependentOctober 5, 2008 6:26:41 AMRespond ^
The BAILOUT refers to the "Bailout" that the Senate did on their responsibilities to their Constituents and their duty to oversee the financial well being of the U.S. economy! It has nothing to do with 700 Billion dollars! The House actually listened to their Constituents, looked into Alternatives,came up with a cut down 350 Billion dollar package that actually addressed the problems but were over-ruled by the Senate and Lobbyist for the BIG BILL. I have taken a rollcall Vote from both the Senate and House and intend to take it with me into the voting Booth and uncheck every Congressmen who voted Yes-I hope others do the ssmae!
Posted by:Mr, IndependentOctober 5, 2008 6:36:38 AMRespond ^
My dear "naive" DAVE FENNEL.

I'm not sure you are old enough to vote, but I will gladly try to explain some simple FACTS about the system which we are ALL stuck with.

This is NOT a site for major political parties. It is a site for "Progressives"! (that means forward thinking people who want to move from OLD ideas and methods)

None of us made the "RULES", but if you want to Play the Game, you need to understand the rules that are in place. Otherwise you are just wasting you time!

MONEY............yes, "MONEY" is how the game is played now!

Until you get the MONEY out of the process then you have to play the game like everyone else! Otherwise you get left behind.

Of course people at websites ask for donations............organization costs MONEY. Thats why you CHOOSE which organization to give your money to.

You can also be a blow-hard bystander and not commit any of YOUR dollars to your ideals.........but then you get nothing in return for your wasted breath.

It's a SAD state of affairs, but that's the REALITY of the situation!

So, Shut-Up or Put-Up! Cuz the other side is going to run over you with the propaganda that they pay for with their constituents "MONEY"!

BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH................VOTE REPUBLICAN!!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 5, 2008 9:39:35 PMRespond ^
This is the most eye opening article that I have ever read.It is unbelivable who is representing the values of our country these days. I was taught truth,justice,respect and dignity as standards for leadership. With palin and mccain ( note I spelled their names with small letters),that ls because they are nothing but small minded people who are out to hurt our country. mccain is a disgrace to his military parents.Thanks for enlighting me.D.Swoopes
Posted by:Dolores SwoopesOctober 6, 2008 12:53:30 AMRespond ^
Mr. Independent:

THANK YOU for being someone who understands what I am saying...that we must be an active participant in the change we want to see. By writing your Senators and Representatives and telling them how you feel, what you want, and expecting them to represent their constituents, you are working towards changing things and letting your Representatives know you are watching them, what they do, and how they vote. And by voting accordingly, you are speaking directly to these people. These are the things we have to take the responsibility of doing in order to effect change in OUR government.

The bottom line is, if we do not tell our Reps what we want, in the case of this bailout, then we will get what they want. The one Senator in my area that voted for this bailout will be opening up her emails later this morning and reading an email of discontent from me with a big fat WHY DID YOU VOTE FOR THIS BAILOUT? If I don't receive a response from her, I will write her again and again and again until she responds. That is the responsibility I take on as a taxpaying, voting, participant in the political process. I don't just let my Congressional Representatives think they can vote for things that I have let them know I disagree with, without answering to me WHY they voted differently. I gather that most of you who care enough to write and respond on this blog take the same approach. Clearly most of us on this blog have the same ideology and we use this blog to vent, generate ideas, and share positive, helpful ways in which each of us is TRYING to take back our government. To those of you, THANK YOU. I am grateful to be connected to those that take on the responsibility of working towards the change they want to see and not just [deleted]ing about it while expecting everyone else to do the work!!!
Posted by:Common Sense in PoliticsOctober 6, 2008 3:33:21 AMRespond ^
How are you a progressive foward thinker when you adopt the ways that have been praticed for the past 50 years, such as forming a Lobbying committee?

The bailout which still contains golden parachutes for CEO's and gives the Money to Paulson to dole out is not going to solve this financial crisis. That's why I opposed it. It's a band-aid. McCain and Obama both supported it.

I went to a web site where I was misled into thinking it was a petition to oppose it. The web site was a petition to join a lobbying committee. Lobbyists are part ofthe problem in this country's political system.

No Common sense said in another blog this was a site for liberals and Democrats.

Once again I will respond with I thought this was a site for untainted news.
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 6, 2008 5:36:41 AMRespond ^
Brian,if you read the "nativegirl"post you would know she's only new to the rest of America.Carol Rove & friends know very well that Sarah Palin is the kind of person they need in the White House in order to do 4 them whatever they wish to do 4 their ownagenda. she's nothing but an empty shell and they can fill her head with anything they want, which remind me of Eddie Murphy's movie "Trading places" someone
that says "YES SIR" someone that can be shaped with their images & someone that Chaney & Rone will be happy with.she'll be very happy to carry on with their agenda.she'll be more than happy jumps from"THE BEAUTY PAGEANT SWIMSUIT COMPETITION"to the presidential candidate of the United States competition !! ?? think about it ! if she's a winner,the Neo-Cons are winning!
Who'll be the loosers ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/ 09/26/sarah-palins-beauty-pagea_n_129667.html
Posted by:massimoOctober 6, 2008 7:00:16 AMRespond ^
TUTORING WILL NOT HELP.EAR PEICE WILL !
Posted by:massimoOctober 6, 2008 9:02:13 AMRespond ^
JNH88KR,
You're absolutely right.just last night I watched Michael Moore decumentary,
" Sicko "4 the first time & I found it
a grat piece of information about our healthcare system & other countries and the lies that our media spread in America to stop the national healthcare for every American to help both the health Insurance companies & the drug companies to make Billions of $$$$$$$$
I recommend for every American to see
what our politicians do in order to get richer & richer by scaring us from social medicine in America.
You must see it to believe it & don't believe what the paid corrupted media
what they make you to believe & here it is :

http://video.google.com/videop lay?docid=-1777476510483653993 &ei=4kHqSKv-G5mSrAKgyv2IAQ&q=sicko+movie&vt=lf&hl=en
Posted by:massimoOctober 6, 2008 9:55:34 AMRespond ^
Well, at long last we have found out what Mrs. Palin reads to keep herself informed about the world beyond Alaska's borders - the side of Starbuck's paper cups! "I read 1 paragraph Madeleine Albright wrote, therefore I should be Secretary of State, too . . ."

Joe Biden nailed it when he pointed out that TO DATE Dick Cheney was the most dangerous VP this country has seen.
Posted by:jane brookOctober 6, 2008 10:29:41 PMRespond ^
massimo:

I tried to look up your video but it comes out as "error, not found". Is there a name of the video that we can look up?

Posted by:Common Sense in PoliticsOctober 7, 2008 1:17:24 AMRespond ^
My dear "jane brook"

As if it wasn't pathetic enough that the "Clueless Repukelican Whore" has stooped to using Starbucks Cups for campaign material.........................she got the "quote" WRONG!(imagine that?)

Pale-One stated that Madeline Albright said that there is a special place in hell for women that do not "SUPPORT" other women. Somehow meaning that if "Women" don't support herself(meaning S.Palin), then they will go to hell, of course. Interesting concept.

However the REAL quote was......."There is a special place in hell for women who don't "HELP" other women".........meaning of course that women should help others in NEED. Not mindless, lying, weasel politicians.

This is from a person that also stated yesterday that Afghanistan is a "neighboring" country. Maybe she can also see Afghanistan from her front porch as well.

But on a more serious note! McLiar made a campaign speech yesterday in which he tried to say that Obama was guilty by association with a known 60's radical from 40 years ago. When McBush asked the audience if they knew the REAL Obama...............one of the audience screamed "He's a terrorist!".

During a speech in Florida yesterday Scary Palin said that Obama had consorted with "known domestic terrorists" and asked the audience what should be done about such a person. This inspired one of the crowd to scream "KILL HIM". Now we know what kind of people that are attracted to the McCain/Palin ticket!

All you have to do is watch the Oct.6 Rachel Maddow Show. They have it on VIDEO TAPE! You can distinctly hear the outrageous epithets.

Remember when the Nazi Fascists whipped-up the masses into violent responses?

Sound familiar??????????

BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH.........VOTE REPUBLICAN/Neo-Fascist!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 7, 2008 1:49:07 AMRespond ^
Dear JNH88KR,

You criticism of the Republicans is valid. Clearly, there's a 1984-ish,Orwellian hate chant going on and all eyes focus on the big screen for the hate of the day.

Aren't you using the same tactics in your prose on this web site?

What makes you think the democrats aren't populated by the rich as well?

Just using basic history we can see that the democrats commit criminal activity just as heinous as the republicans. Kennedy tried a failed invasion of Cuba,Kennedy built up forces in Viet-nam, LBJ authorized the largest bombings and troop build-ups in Viet-nam. LBJ also bombed Cambodia and Laos. Clinton attacked Iraq and bombed Serbia in the largest air attack in History.

No Common Sense, I have every right to complain. I register to vote, I went to your web site(and it wasn't what you said it was) I will clearly state again because you either can't read or won't read what I put down, Barack Obama and Dick Durbin supported the $700 billion bail-out They are my senators and need to be voted out. My representative is Jerry Costello, he opposed both versions of the $700 billion bail-out. I will be voting for him. Bush the II supported the bail-out and if he wasn't a lame duck I'd vote him out too.

You two call yourselves progressive but use the same old tactics as your enemies. How is that progressive? I would like to be progessive, but I guess I'm not because I think that voting for anyone who is the right person for the job,given the external stimulae in their time period, minus all the bi-partisan B.S., such as a lobbying committee like moveon.org. Shouldn't you research the candidates?

This is a fact about Barack Obama. During his time in local government in Chicago he was closely tied to the nation of Islam and now disavows any association with them at all. My problem is not that he used a religious organization to advance himself polically, but that he denies it now. I want to vote for this guy, but he folded like a lawn chair when it came to passing the $700 billion welfare check. McCain clearly exhibits signs of post tramautic stress syndrom and the last thing we need is another republican with mental trauma. (Remember Reagan had alzheimer's in the last part of his presidency and there is medical evidence that Ford suffered from multiple concussions during his football days at Michigan.)

J88 with your ascerbic attacks and support of an ineffective system, you don't sound to much different than the enemy you decry, Just like no common sense. You two are clearly college students that don't work full time.



Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 7, 2008 5:37:46 AMRespond ^
Mr. "Dave Fennell"

I usually don't choose to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man, but I will make an exception in this case. Only because you seem like a nice guy, but as usual you miss the point.

The popular misconception by the "Category Mongers" is that anyone who rails against a major party is automatically a proponent of the opposite major part. That is "simple" thinking of course. Also very non-progressive. They feel uncomfortable not being able to pidgeon-hole everyone around them into a nice neat little box.
They become threatened.

I am NOT a Republican, Democrat, or any other "label" you feel comfortable with.

I AM AN AMERICAN CITIZEN!
And a realist.

I take an interest in what is going on in the country and around the world. I try to be as educated about the major issues as possible so I can make an "intelligent" choice about the people that are going to decide how to govern us and the "rest of the world". Yes...........believe it or not, the USA has a HUGE effect on the rest of the world's population also. Something that is beyond most of the selfish, arrogant voters in this country. I have a fiance from a third world country and believe me..........they are ALL watching to see who the Crazy Americans will put in power this time!

You seem to be obsessed with "style" rather than "substance". You may not like the way I say things, but you have NOT disputed any of the "facts" I put forward.

This is an open and public forum for the exchange of ideas, opinions, and facts. If you don't like my style...........too bad! I'm not here to please anyone in particular.

BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH.............VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 7, 2008 10:39:50 PMRespond ^
I didn't say I didn't like your style,I questioned it; and you haven't put any facts foward.

I am questioning your's and common sense's tactics when it comes to choosing a leader, not your choice. I am beginning to think that the 3 of us think in a similiar fashion. I don't want to adopt the ways of my enemy because that makes me no better than they. Lobbying committees are part of the problem.

Before the 1950's campaigns were still run off of trains and the candidates interacted with crowds, they didn't just speak to them. We need to have severe limitations to the amount of money used in campaigns to open up the playing field. It needs to be regulated. I don't see either side calling for this.

Eisenhower coined the term, "military industrial complex." That is the state of affairs we live in today. When a piece of the F-111 is manufactured in every state it's hard for any elected official to say no to new F-111's. Every state manufactures some type of weapon or military equipment. The factories employ 100's of registered voters who in turn have 100's of friends and family members that would be negatively affected if government funding were cut for the military. Politicians only know votes. So, any time a referendum comes up to purchase a steath whatever they can't say no, because back home, joe six-pack wants his plant to continue to employ him. We have to have a standing army to guard the oil we need to use the high tech equipment the federal money, your money, pays for.

Enter Iran. In 1953 Eisenhower announced that Iran was a threat to American interests because their president wanted to nationalize the oil infrastructure. The CIA assassinated Iran's democratically elected leader. He was replaced with a right wing dictator who murdered 100'000's of his own people. Fast foward to the 1970's. Khomeini comes into power and the US embassy is overthrown. The CIA supplants strong-man, Saddam Hussein into power and equips him with meduim range missile technology, chemical and biological weapons who procedes to use them against Iran. The subsiquent Iran-Iraq war comes to a stale-mate. Enter Osama Bin Laden. In the 70's Al-Qaeda was given 100's of stinger missiles to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan by the CIA. (Some of which were sold to the North Koreans and promptly used to shoot down a South Korean Air liner in the 80's. You might be to young to remember that) They also recieved training and money. The first gulf war was fought off of Saudi soil. This angered bin Laden. Although we fought Hussein who invaded Kuwait to prove that his army isn't a total waste and had to gain some territory. Then we fought him again, then we fought him again. Now, enter Iran again. The new government in Iraq is Shia, Iran is Shia. Al-qaeda is Sunni, the city of Mecca is controlled by the Sunni's. Saddam was Sunni. Hezbollah is Shia. Iran could be our best friend's in the middle east. They hate an fear Al-Qaeda as much as we do. Teheran put into place the cease-fire in Iraq during the troop build-up. Al-sodar is in Teheran right now studying at a Mosque. Enter Bush the II. We have an axis of evil. Enter John McCain and Palin. Palin, who wants to invade Russia. McCain, who is now a stooge of Carl Rove. Enter Barack Obama, bring everyone home, but what are his plans for Iran? What are his specific plans for building the military and infrastructure for Afghanistan amid our own crisis?

N88, I like you too, quit with the condescending tone though. Common sense, I am sorry I was so rude to you earlier, but I don't want to keep using the strategy of a failed system.

There is a good book out right now entitled, "The Devil we know." I have read excerpts and cliff notes on it because it cost $25 and I can't afford it. The book explains the past 30 years of turmoil with Iran.

My apologies to everyone else, this site was for comments on Palin. She's a moron.
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 8, 2008 5:29:52 AMRespond ^
Mr. "Dave Fennell"

You stated that I did NOT put any "facts forward". This means that you either did not see the FACTS or you are a liar.

The following are a list of "facts" from my postings on this page:

FACT- All you have to do is go to an Electoral Vote monitoring site to see that Obama has a nice 134 point lead over Blinky The Clown and his Repukelican Whore. I'm sure that most Red Necks don't realize that the people do NOT elect the President. There is a little thing called the Electoral College that does that! DUH.............
Just go to www.fivethirtyeight.com for instant enlightenment.

FACT- The Repukelican party is a "Rich Man's Club". Anybody making LESS than a Quarter Million dollars is a complete "IDIOT" to vote for a member of this "CLUB"! What party do you think the Wall Street theives belong to? What party do you think that your Banker belongs to? What party do you think your Boss belongs to? Wake up!

FACT- The ONLY way for a reasonable Average Joe to vote is "YOUR WALLET"! Anybody who votes otherwise is an IDIOT who is voting against their own interest.

FACT- The ironic thing is that the candidate who will do the MOST for the "Red Neck" class of people is the "Black Man"! Only they are SO poisoned by their irrational hate that they can't even realize it. And if they can............they won't admit it. What a sad statement for a supposedly "Christian" nation.

FACT- Katie Couric did NOT ask Blinky The Clown's Repukelican Whore the "Bush Doctrine" question! It was Charles Gibson who asked that.

FACT- None of us made the "RULES", but if you want to Play the Game, you need to understand the rules that are in place. Otherwise you are just wasting you time! MONEY............yes, "MONEY" is how the game is played now! Until you get the MONEY out of the process then you have to play the game like everyone else! Otherwise you get left behind. It's a SAD state of affairs, but that's the REALITY of the situation!
(I do NOT support this system. I am merely pointing-out the reality!)

FACT- As if it wasn't pathetic enough that the "Clueless Repukelican Whore" has stooped to using Starbucks Cups for campaign material.........................she got the "quote" WRONG!(imagine that?) Pale-One stated that Madeline Albright said that there is a special place in hell for women that do not "SUPPORT" other women. Somehow meaning that if "Women" don't support herself(meaning S.Palin), then they will go to hell, of course. Interesting concept.
However the REAL quote was......."There is a special place in hell for women who don't "HELP" other women".........meaning of course that women should help others in NEED. Not mindless, lying, weasel politicians.

FACT- But on a more serious note! McLiar made a campaign speech yesterday in which he tried to say that Obama was guilty by association with a known 60's radical from 40 years ago. When McBush asked the audience if they knew the REAL Obama...............one of the audience screamed "He's a terrorist!".

FACT- During a speech in Florida yesterday Scary Palin said that Obama had consorted with "known domestic terrorists" and asked the audience what should be done about such a person. This inspired one of the crowd to scream "KILL HIM". Now we know what kind of people that are attracted to the McCain/Palin ticket!

FACT- Yes...........believe it or not, the USA has a HUGE effect on the rest of the world's population also. Something that is beyond the grasp of most of the selfish, arrogant voters in this country.

All of these "facts" and "quotes" are TRUE!

If you don't know that......... then you are either Blind or Tone-Deaf!

BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH..........VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 8, 2008 6:11:52 PMRespond ^
You repubs think you own this country.

You think you have the right to declare who is "anti-american" or not.

I cannot wait to get Obama in there and get you republifascists on a fast plane to the Hague for a war crimes trial.
Posted by:SteveOctober 8, 2008 8:25:35 PMRespond ^
AMEN "Steve"!

Maybe now we can put to rest one of the BIGGEST lies perpetrated upon the common folk of this country by the Repukelicans:

"THE TRICKLE-DOWN THEORY"

For eight years we've been told that the way to a stronger economy was to give huge tax breaks to corporations and the wealthiest. Cut oversight on Wall Street. And somehow all Americans would benefit. Well now we know the TRUTH!

Trickle-down theory............RIP.

BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH........VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 8, 2008 8:42:37 PMRespond ^
"Be a sucker for the rich, vote Republican."

"Money is how the game is played now. Unless you get money out of the system you have to play the game like everyone else."

So, everyone else is the Democrats?

Meaning that democrats have alot of money too?

Be a sucker for the rich, interesting.
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 9, 2008 2:19:29 PMRespond ^
LISTEN>>>>>>>>>"FENNELL" !!!!!!!!

I can't decide wether you are just a clueless idiot, or you lack the intellect to grasp simple concepts!

For the LAST time I will try to explain the "Facts of Political Campaign Life" in America. After this..........you're on your own Sparky!

The "Game" that I refer to is the "ELECTION GAME"!.........duh.

The "Money" that I refer to is "Electtion Money"!..........duh.

The Republicans have HUGE amounts of "Campaign Money"!.........duh.

So like-wise ANY oppposing party needs to counter with HUGE amounts of "Campaign Money"!.........duh.

THAT IS THE "GAME" I AM TALKING ABOUT !!!!!!!!............geez.

I do NOT approve of the system! But it is the ONLY one we have NOW!.............duh.

When I say........."Be A Sucker For the Rich.......Vote Republican", I am NOT talking about "Campaign" riches! I am talking about the "FACT" that ALL of the Republican policies benefit the "RICH"! So if you are a "Working Class Hero", then a vote for the Republicans is a vote AGAINST your own interest!!!!!!!!

It's a VERY simple concept that most intelligent people can easily grasp. The fact that you can NOT do this only leads me to believe that either you are stupid or just a natural [deleted]!

Get a grip and stop wasting our time!!!!!!!

Or even better.............waste your vote on McLiar. He's a natural [deleted] also. You will get along just fine.

BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH..........VOTE REPUBLICAN!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 9, 2008 9:40:50 PMRespond ^
By the way SPARKY................[deleted] is "secret code" for "ACE-HOLE"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by:JNH88KROctober 9, 2008 9:49:00 PMRespond ^
You do know that Obama has more campaign money than McCain?

The people with money you are referring to wouldn't be the Clinton's would it?

Maybe the Kennedy's?

John Kerry, who's he married to again, Hmmm, Heinz?

All these facts you keep citing are quotes and subjective conjecture. Here's a quote for you. "FDR would have gone on TV to stop the great depression." Do you remember Biden saying that? The fact that Television hadn't been invented yet and FDR was president after the depression was full swing wasn't a problem right? Do you remember Biden's racially insenstive comments toward Obama which he had to apologize for?

Will you be voting for Obama because someone else in the crowd yelled out, "He's a terriost"?

Just because someone is a liberal or a progressive, does that mean they are a democrat? Look at Ron Paul.

A good book for you and common sense to read is Eric Hoffer's "the True Believer." In it he describes the nature of movements and fanaticism. Are we laching onto a movement due to fear or to be a part of something of that is greater than we. You and common sense are angry little cusses. The system needs people like you. I want to know more of what you think. You two should go back to your political science 101 classes and tell me more of what you learned today.
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 10, 2008 1:49:54 AMRespond ^
Policies that benefit the poor wouldn't have been NAFTA, would it?
No jobs left the country because of that, right?

I'm not sure which president pushed that one through, could you help me out?
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 11, 2008 6:42:55 AMRespond ^

The federal minimum wage in this country is $6.55 an hour. Over 75% of families living below the poverty line in this country have a parent or parents that work contrary to popular belief that they sit around collecting a welfare check taking a free ride. McCain has voted 19 times AGAINST raising the minimum wage. It would hurt businesses if they had to pay a higher minimum wage!!! The education system in this country is deplorable, more importantly in low socio-economic areas. Buildings are dilapidated, the water is toxic, teachers do not have the proper school supplies needed to teach, and these schools continue to receive less and less federal money for improvements and necessities EVERY YEAR, particularly since "No Child Left Behind" has been enacted. Oddly enough, many children ARE being left behind!!! Women make 77 cents for every dollar that a man makes for the same job and their choice of whether or not they have the right to have an abortion is at risk EVERY time a Republican even smells the White House. The rich continue to get richer while the poor continue to get poorer and the middle class? At this point where are they? Healthcare is, according to McCain, a responsibility. Families continue to struggle, people lose their homes over a serious illness, and some end up living on the street because of the lack of affordable healthcare in this country. We continue to spend $10 billion dollars a month on a false war, led by this incompetent, irresponsible, dishonest, ignorant President we have, while McCain proclaims he'll stay there 100 years if that's what it takes. Palin, the DB that she is, says to exit Iraq would be lifting a white flag and that's not what the soldiers or the American people want. Really? Has she talked the American people about this? She would take away a woman's choice, even in cases of rape and incest, and she can see Russia from her house, cannot think of a decision that the Supreme court has made that she disagrees with, and believes of all the stupid things Dick Cheney has done, shooting someone in the face was the dumbest!!! Dumb and dumber are just that, dumb and dumber!!!

In a two-party system, which is what we have, you couldn't pay me to vote Republican and you couldn't pay me not to vote Democrat. You also cannot expect things to change if you do not take on the responsibility of challenging your government. Simply voting and paying taxes is not enough. If you want change from your government, you need to work towards the change you want to see. STOP [deleted]ING AND START DOING!!!

JNH88KR, if you don't mind:

"BE A SUCKER FOR THE RICH................VOTE REPUBLICAN!!"
Posted by:Common Sense in PoliticsOctober 11, 2008 3:09:36 PMRespond ^
I am not disagreeing with what you say about the reign of the obviously, corrupt and dishonest oligarchy we have now. Why replace it with another one that is just as incompetant and dishonest? History only begs this question to be asked. McCain said,"We would stay in Iraq for 100 years if we need to." That sounds like imperialism to me.

I asked if you thought a Chicago Democrat is the same as a San Franciscan Democrat? There is a good book written by Mike Royko entitled, "Boss". It details the reign of Daley the 1st, in the only city where City board members are referred to with the Mideivel term 'Alderman'. One of the most powerful political machines that ever existed in this country. He also chronicles the 68' democratic convention debacle, where Mayor Daley unleashed 50,000 state troopers, city police and national guardsmen on defenseless war protestors. Royko details the assisnation of Bobby Fisher, leader of the Black Panthers. They uncovered 10,000 rounds of ammo from Fisher's body, Fisher's girlfriend's body and the walls behind them. That's a democrat for you. That's helping the poor? This is the system your boy came from, because last I checked, Chicago is still run by a man named Daley. The people in his district will tell you that he did nothing for them. Last I checked the South Side of Chicago is poverty ridden, full of hovels, pot-hole ridden streets, ghettoes...

Mike Royko was a columnist for the Chicago Tribune for decades. He might be a little before your time, although still an excellent muck-raker. His book,"Boss", gives an excellent description of the Chicago political machine that still exists today. The incubator for Obama.
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 12, 2008 8:41:21 AMRespond ^
I forgot to add this.

Be a sucker for the rich, vote bi-partisan.
Posted by:Dave FennellOctober 12, 2008 1:36:19 PMRespond ^
Use of the word "brash" with respect to Senator Obama (first paragraph) is completely wrong; you've got to be living under a rock to think any of these definitions apply to Obama:

1. impertinent; impudent; tactless: a brash young man.
2. hasty; rash; impetuous.
Posted by:MicheleOctober 14, 2008 3:51:30 PMRespond ^
I have family in the reddest county in America (Utah county, state of Utah). At last Sunday's dinner, at my mother's home, not one